1 00:00:11,803 --> 00:00:14,014 - It is today that pleadings will begin 2 00:00:14,014 --> 00:00:15,390 in the trial of Maurice “Mom” Boucher, 3 00:00:15,390 --> 00:00:18,143 who is accused of the murder of the 2 prison guards, 4 00:00:18,143 --> 00:00:21,271 Ms. Diane Lavigne and Mr. Pierre Rondeau. 5 00:00:21,271 --> 00:00:24,065 After 6 weeks of trial, the Crown will present 6 00:00:24,065 --> 00:00:26,443 his final argument to the members of the jury, 7 00:00:26,443 --> 00:00:28,653 before the defense don't speak. 8 00:00:28,653 --> 00:00:31,114 All this will take place over several days, 9 00:00:31,114 --> 00:00:33,616 until the jury not be sequestered 10 00:00:33,616 --> 00:00:35,201 to get there to a unanimous verdict. 11 00:00:35,201 --> 00:00:36,995 - Makes everyone know what he has to do there. 12 00:00:36,995 --> 00:00:38,496 - Yes yes. 13 00:00:38,496 --> 00:00:40,915 - There, I know that everyone is over his ears, 14 00:00:40,915 --> 00:00:42,208 but it's today that France 15 00:00:42,208 --> 00:00:44,002 presents his plea to the members of the jury. 16 00:00:44,002 --> 00:00:45,628 - That's if things don't hang around too much. 17 00:00:45,628 --> 00:00:47,464 - No matter, it would be nice to see you there 18 00:00:47,464 --> 00:00:49,466 as a sign of appreciation, that would make him happy. 19 00:00:49,466 --> 00:00:51,092 - We're going to be there, you just have to call us 20 00:00:51,092 --> 00:00:52,343 when it's time. 21 00:00:52,343 --> 00:00:54,387 - Make sure she has everything he needs. 22 00:00:54,387 --> 00:00:56,514 - She doesn't mind for us ask when she needs. 23 00:00:56,514 --> 00:00:59,267 - Ah, hey, Martin, there's the gang to Gouin who can talk to you. 24 00:00:59,267 --> 00:01:01,144 - The trial in Spring 2001 starts today, 25 00:01:01,144 --> 00:01:02,937 It looks like Gagné wants know nothing about testifying there. 26 00:01:02,937 --> 00:01:06,107 - He has no choice, it's in his informer contract. 27 00:01:06,107 --> 00:01:07,942 - But told him that it’s limited to Boucher 28 00:01:07,942 --> 00:01:09,110 for the murder of the 2 goalkeepers. 29 00:01:09,110 --> 00:01:11,237 - We all discussed of that with him, already. 30 00:01:11,237 --> 00:01:12,447 - will have to discuss further 31 00:01:12,447 --> 00:01:14,699 because the guy doesn't seem to have understood. 32 00:01:14,699 --> 00:01:15,575 - I'll go there with you. 33 00:01:15,575 --> 00:01:17,202 We will go after the pleading of France. 34 00:01:22,499 --> 00:01:23,458 - Good morning. 35 00:01:23,458 --> 00:01:24,751 - Ready for the big day? 36 00:01:24,751 --> 00:01:27,170 - If we're not there, we never will be. 37 00:01:27,170 --> 00:01:28,880 - You know that if you need of anything, 38 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:30,131 the guys are here to help you. 39 00:01:30,131 --> 00:01:32,008 - Ah! Do they want correct typos 40 00:01:32,008 --> 00:01:33,093 in my text? 41 00:01:33,093 --> 00:01:34,177 (laughs) 42 00:01:34,177 --> 00:01:36,137 - We're going to be at court today. 43 00:01:36,137 --> 00:01:37,972 Guys want to show that we are with you. 44 00:01:37,972 --> 00:01:39,432 - Um, you guys! 45 00:01:39,432 --> 00:01:42,310 you will never stop to surprise me. 46 00:01:42,310 --> 00:01:45,146 A plea is not the end of the world either, eh. 47 00:01:45,146 --> 00:01:48,441 If I could just clean it up the atmosphere a little. 48 00:01:48,441 --> 00:01:50,235 - It looks like things are brewing with Me Brunelle? 49 00:01:50,235 --> 00:01:51,694 - He called me hysterical. 50 00:01:51,694 --> 00:01:54,447 - (Sylvain): Yes, there is a lot of tension. 51 00:01:54,447 --> 00:01:56,991 - Yes, especially since we received the judge's instructions. 52 00:01:56,991 --> 00:01:58,493 He is more of 40 contradictions 53 00:01:58,493 --> 00:02:00,203 in Gagné's testimony. 54 00:02:00,203 --> 00:02:02,288 I won't fight against that, 55 00:02:02,288 --> 00:02:04,332 but I think I have found a way to say, 56 00:02:04,332 --> 00:02:06,668 contrary to what the defense and judge claim. 57 00:02:06,668 --> 00:02:08,837 - Ah, that, His Lordship won't like that, there. 58 00:02:08,837 --> 00:02:11,089 - Yes, but I will do it with skill, hmm? 59 00:02:11,089 --> 00:02:12,382 - Are you starting this morning? 60 00:02:12,382 --> 00:02:13,633 - Um, no, more this afternoon. 61 00:02:13,633 --> 00:02:15,343 - Ah, that’s perfect. will give me time 62 00:02:15,343 --> 00:02:16,344 to go see Stéphane Gagné. 63 00:02:16,344 --> 00:02:17,387 - Yes, you have time, 64 00:02:17,387 --> 00:02:18,680 I have business to be paid before. 65 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:20,056 Then I have a meeting with the judge 66 00:02:20,056 --> 00:02:21,474 concerning Me Brunelle. 67 00:02:21,474 --> 00:02:23,351 - Okay, I'll let yourself organize. 68 00:02:23,351 --> 00:02:25,895 - (whispering): Oh, okay... 69 00:02:25,895 --> 00:02:28,314 Uh... 70 00:02:32,277 --> 00:02:34,237 - You have no choice to go and testify 71 00:02:34,237 --> 00:02:35,363 in Spring 2001, Stéphane. 72 00:02:35,363 --> 00:02:36,614 - I always have a choice. 73 00:02:36,614 --> 00:02:38,533 I could go there then close my eyes. 74 00:02:38,533 --> 00:02:41,119 - But no, but no, let's see! It's written in your contract. 75 00:02:41,119 --> 00:02:42,871 Look: "He undertakes to testify 76 00:02:42,871 --> 00:02:45,248 "before the Canadian courts as often as required 77 00:02:45,248 --> 00:02:47,667 "relative to the facts revealed to the police 78 00:02:47,667 --> 00:02:50,670 "between December 6, 97 and December 13, 97. 79 00:02:50,670 --> 00:02:53,298 - Well that's it, It’s limited to what I did. 80 00:02:53,298 --> 00:02:54,841 - That means your criminal activities 81 00:02:54,841 --> 00:02:56,593 with the Rockers and the Nomads. 82 00:02:56,593 --> 00:02:58,595 That's all you did, Stéphane, you know that. 83 00:02:58,595 --> 00:03:00,638 - Me, there, I was supposed to pass my sentence 84 00:03:00,638 --> 00:03:02,599 in a provincial prison, it's not done. 85 00:03:02,599 --> 00:03:04,392 You were supposed to take the necessary measures 86 00:03:04,392 --> 00:03:05,435 to ensure my safety. 87 00:03:05,435 --> 00:03:06,769 That’s not done either, 88 00:03:06,769 --> 00:03:09,355 it distributed my photo everywhere during the first trial. 89 00:03:09,355 --> 00:03:11,316 My conditions of detention, do you want to talk about it? 90 00:03:11,316 --> 00:03:12,650 I'm locked up 23 hours a day, 91 00:03:12,650 --> 00:03:14,569 I have the right to go out an hour a day. 92 00:03:14,569 --> 00:03:16,404 If Mom is found guilty, there, he will come here, 93 00:03:16,404 --> 00:03:18,406 it's going to put me again more heat on your back. 94 00:03:18,406 --> 00:03:20,450 I'm sorry, guys, but for me, that's going to be it. 95 00:03:20,450 --> 00:03:21,993 I already said it, get a lawyer 96 00:03:21,993 --> 00:03:23,369 if it doesn't work to your liking. 97 00:03:23,369 --> 00:03:26,289 You will start to have a nasty problem, eh. 98 00:03:26,289 --> 00:03:27,373 because your informers, there, 99 00:03:27,373 --> 00:03:28,833 they start to have your ass full. 100 00:03:28,833 --> 00:03:30,877 Because you make promises you don't keep. 101 00:03:30,877 --> 00:03:33,213 - Excuse me, I have never done promises, that's not my role. 102 00:03:33,213 --> 00:03:34,380 - You know what I mean. 103 00:03:34,380 --> 00:03:35,673 - Tell them competent authorities. 104 00:03:35,673 --> 00:03:37,217 - I do, but no one listens to me, 105 00:03:37,217 --> 00:03:38,259 no one cares. 106 00:03:38,259 --> 00:03:40,094 - Talk to your controller! 107 00:03:40,094 --> 00:03:41,554 - Don't worry, he knows about it. 108 00:03:41,554 --> 00:03:43,223 - I find it very boring that it turns the same, 109 00:03:43,223 --> 00:03:44,682 I tell you, Stéphane, there... 110 00:03:44,682 --> 00:03:46,768 - Oh yes, me too, I find it boring. 111 00:03:47,894 --> 00:03:49,229 (door opening) 112 00:03:50,104 --> 00:03:52,440 - Okay, listen, 113 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,401 Mr. Justice, you gave me a pole 114 00:03:55,401 --> 00:03:57,278 so that we can settle some problems 115 00:03:57,278 --> 00:03:58,780 before the start of the pleadings, 116 00:03:58,780 --> 00:04:02,575 because the atmosphere of the trial was poisoned. 117 00:04:02,575 --> 00:04:04,494 - Yes. 118 00:04:04,494 --> 00:04:06,496 - you know, the attacks continual from my colleague 119 00:04:06,496 --> 00:04:07,747 have a lot to do with it. 120 00:04:07,747 --> 00:04:09,999 I understand that he part of his tactics, 121 00:04:09,999 --> 00:04:12,627 but I would expect that you intervene in these cases. 122 00:04:12,627 --> 00:04:15,296 Because when my colleague says that I'm having a nervous breakdown, 123 00:04:15,296 --> 00:04:17,799 it is absolutely terrible to say that. 124 00:04:17,799 --> 00:04:19,300 You don't react. You don't say anything. 125 00:04:19,300 --> 00:04:20,468 - You put him in his place. 126 00:04:20,468 --> 00:04:22,178 It's even better if it comes from you 127 00:04:22,178 --> 00:04:23,263 only if it comes from me. 128 00:04:23,263 --> 00:04:25,098 - I don't agree, Mr. Judge! 129 00:04:25,098 --> 00:04:26,474 This is completely inadequate. 130 00:04:26,474 --> 00:04:28,768 It is inappropriate to from my colleague. 131 00:04:28,768 --> 00:04:31,187 When I told you that I thought he was screaming 132 00:04:31,187 --> 00:04:32,897 and he shouted in court, I was sincere. 133 00:04:32,897 --> 00:04:34,440 He was screaming. 134 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:35,984 - I have always respected you. 135 00:04:35,984 --> 00:04:37,360 You were my student, 136 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:38,987 you already have pleaded before me, 137 00:04:38,987 --> 00:04:41,739 so, I also know that you have some room inside. 138 00:04:41,739 --> 00:04:43,324 - You made it clear on the fact... 139 00:04:43,324 --> 00:04:45,076 - Wait. I haven't finished, Mr. Charbonneau. 140 00:04:45,076 --> 00:04:46,577 - Yes, sorry, Mr. Justice. 141 00:04:46,577 --> 00:04:49,038 - The person we esteem weak, we say to ourselves: 142 00:04:49,038 --> 00:04:50,665 she is less capable of taking 143 00:04:50,665 --> 00:04:53,251 than the one who has the chest internally, do you understand? 144 00:04:53,251 --> 00:04:54,836 - Can I, Mr. Judge? - You are welcome. 145 00:04:54,836 --> 00:04:56,546 - You were clear, you, in fact 146 00:04:56,546 --> 00:04:59,007 that you don't want to pass for a 2 of spades in court? 147 00:04:59,007 --> 00:05:01,092 Well, me neither Mr. Justice, you see? 148 00:05:01,092 --> 00:05:03,219 When my colleague treats me in such a cavalier manner... 149 00:05:03,219 --> 00:05:04,345 - Rider? - Yes! 150 00:05:04,345 --> 00:05:05,430 When my colleague treats me 151 00:05:05,430 --> 00:05:06,556 in such a cavalier manner 152 00:05:06,556 --> 00:05:08,474 and the judge does not intervene no, what does it say? 153 00:05:08,474 --> 00:05:09,976 What does that tell us? 154 00:05:09,976 --> 00:05:12,854 - Me Brunelle has a voice who carries. That's how it is. 155 00:05:12,854 --> 00:05:14,147 Wait. 156 00:05:14,147 --> 00:05:15,356 I have often said in other trials 157 00:05:15,356 --> 00:05:16,399 that the lawyers want 158 00:05:16,399 --> 00:05:18,609 be treated by the judge with respect, 159 00:05:18,609 --> 00:05:21,612 then I try to process them prosecutors with respect. 160 00:05:21,612 --> 00:05:23,656 Now, if the lawyers, prosecutors 161 00:05:23,656 --> 00:05:25,491 want to be treated with respect, 162 00:05:25,491 --> 00:05:27,994 they must respect themselves. 163 00:05:27,994 --> 00:05:30,788 Mr. Charbonneau, I have it not perceived like that. 164 00:05:30,788 --> 00:05:33,207 Maybe I mistaken, it could be. 165 00:05:33,207 --> 00:05:34,834 Then obviously, I don't have your experience. 166 00:05:34,834 --> 00:05:37,378 It's been 3 years since you live together legally 167 00:05:37,378 --> 00:05:39,714 because you were in the first trial. 168 00:05:39,714 --> 00:05:40,965 - But I wasn't prosecutor... 169 00:05:40,965 --> 00:05:42,717 - You were still in the first trial. 170 00:05:42,717 --> 00:05:43,885 - Yes. 171 00:05:43,885 --> 00:05:46,387 - I will ask you to avoid towards each other... 172 00:05:46,387 --> 00:05:48,389 But maybe it's actually more you, 173 00:05:48,389 --> 00:05:49,891 me Brunelle, who made it... 174 00:05:49,891 --> 00:05:52,477 - Judge, she called me dishonest! 175 00:05:52,477 --> 00:05:53,728 - No, no, but listen... 176 00:05:53,728 --> 00:05:55,271 - She said that I had exceeded 177 00:05:55,271 --> 00:05:56,689 the boundaries of defense. 178 00:05:56,689 --> 00:05:58,733 - Because you had exceeded the boundaries of defense. 179 00:05:58,733 --> 00:06:00,068 - And you find that respectful? 180 00:06:00,068 --> 00:06:02,278 - Ah, Me Brunelle who teaches lessons in respect. 181 00:06:02,278 --> 00:06:05,073 That’s interesting, sir. the judge. Very interesting. 182 00:06:05,073 --> 00:06:07,992 - Please, we'll try to regain serenity 183 00:06:07,992 --> 00:06:10,495 which was perhaps lost, and I regret it. 184 00:06:11,746 --> 00:06:13,915 I will be very strict from now on. 185 00:06:13,915 --> 00:06:16,834 The parties will address to me and not to each other, 186 00:06:16,834 --> 00:06:19,629 because that's always where it can start to deteriorate. 187 00:06:19,629 --> 00:06:22,131 And I will be very strict on the remarks of some 188 00:06:22,131 --> 00:06:23,257 towards others. 189 00:06:23,257 --> 00:06:24,717 It's just that that I can do. 190 00:06:24,717 --> 00:06:27,011 But rest assured that I will be very vigilant. 191 00:06:27,011 --> 00:06:29,889 Thank you, Mr. Justice. 192 00:06:32,433 --> 00:06:35,269 I also understand incredible stress 193 00:06:35,269 --> 00:06:37,688 what lawyers can experience. 194 00:06:38,981 --> 00:06:41,776 I will be very demanding for both parties. 195 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:46,364 - Am I bothering you? 196 00:06:46,364 --> 00:06:48,408 - No. Sit down. 197 00:06:55,665 --> 00:06:57,625 I wanted to thank you. 198 00:06:58,584 --> 00:07:01,337 - Thank me? But... why? 199 00:07:01,337 --> 00:07:05,800 - You, your colleagues who... come to see me, 200 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,261 that's very kind of you. 201 00:07:08,261 --> 00:07:09,303 - Yeah... 202 00:07:09,303 --> 00:07:11,973 Well, we... we was there at the beginning, 203 00:07:11,973 --> 00:07:14,392 then we will be there for the end too. 204 00:07:14,392 --> 00:07:16,269 - It's far from over! 205 00:07:16,269 --> 00:07:17,437 - You understand what I mean. 206 00:07:17,437 --> 00:07:18,688 - Yes. 207 00:07:26,112 --> 00:07:28,656 - Make them understand that we cannot attack each other with impunity 208 00:07:28,656 --> 00:07:29,991 to the State as they did. 209 00:07:33,035 --> 00:07:34,162 - We have to go. 210 00:07:42,003 --> 00:07:43,796 Your Lordship. 211 00:07:47,175 --> 00:07:49,218 Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, 212 00:07:49,218 --> 00:07:50,845 I want first to thank you 213 00:07:50,845 --> 00:07:53,514 for your continued attention throughout the trial, 214 00:07:53,514 --> 00:07:57,310 for your punctuality and also for your patience, 215 00:07:57,310 --> 00:08:00,062 sometimes severely tested. 216 00:08:00,062 --> 00:08:03,983 The judge told you during his preliminary remarks, 217 00:08:03,983 --> 00:08:08,946 and will tell you again that the Crown has the burden of proving 218 00:08:08,946 --> 00:08:12,617 beyond reasonable doubt the guilt of the accused. 219 00:08:13,993 --> 00:08:18,789 That this doubt should not be an imaginary or frivolous doubt, 220 00:08:18,789 --> 00:08:21,876 but that it must be based on reason and common sense 221 00:08:21,876 --> 00:08:25,129 and follow from the proof or lack of evidence. 222 00:08:26,380 --> 00:08:28,883 Consider the following example. 223 00:08:28,883 --> 00:08:32,929 Um, imagine that you wake up around 11:00 a.m., 224 00:08:32,929 --> 00:08:37,350 you open the blinds, it's a radiant sun, 225 00:08:37,350 --> 00:08:41,395 and you realize that outside, the asphalt is wet, 226 00:08:41,395 --> 00:08:42,772 the grass is wet, 227 00:08:42,772 --> 00:08:45,441 and raindrops pearl at your window. 228 00:08:45,441 --> 00:08:46,901 What will you think? 229 00:08:46,901 --> 00:08:49,737 That there was a storm while you sleep. 230 00:08:49,737 --> 00:08:53,074 But if someone tells you 231 00:08:53,074 --> 00:08:55,034 that it's a tanker 232 00:08:55,034 --> 00:08:59,747 who went astray and spilled its cargo of water 233 00:08:59,747 --> 00:09:03,584 right above your house, will you believe it? 234 00:09:03,584 --> 00:09:04,961 Certainly not. 235 00:09:04,961 --> 00:09:07,129 Because it would be not likely 236 00:09:07,129 --> 00:09:08,881 to believe such a thing. 237 00:09:08,881 --> 00:09:11,259 And yet you don't have not absolute certainty 238 00:09:11,259 --> 00:09:15,179 that it is not about the plane and whether it is rain. 239 00:09:16,138 --> 00:09:18,724 The legislator, in his great wisdom, 240 00:09:18,724 --> 00:09:21,811 does not require you to be convinced of a fact 241 00:09:21,811 --> 00:09:24,689 according to the standard absolute certainty, 242 00:09:24,689 --> 00:09:29,068 since the certainty absolute does not exist. 243 00:09:30,861 --> 00:09:32,989 If I address you first today, 244 00:09:32,989 --> 00:09:35,283 it's because the law wants it that way. 245 00:09:35,283 --> 00:09:38,452 Indeed, when the accused 246 00:09:38,452 --> 00:09:40,621 chooses not to make defense, 247 00:09:40,621 --> 00:09:44,000 it belongs to the crown to plead first. 248 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,168 And if I attract your pay attention to this fact, 249 00:09:46,168 --> 00:09:48,671 it is because once my colleague will have pleaded, 250 00:09:48,671 --> 00:09:51,132 I won't be able to reply to what he told you. 251 00:09:51,132 --> 00:09:53,593 It is certain that I will not agree. 252 00:09:53,593 --> 00:09:55,970 But I will be kept silent. 253 00:09:55,970 --> 00:09:58,806 I should therefore, a little, here and there, 254 00:09:58,806 --> 00:10:03,477 try to play divination counter certain allegations. 255 00:10:03,477 --> 00:10:05,896 And it's very ungrateful because that I won't have the advantage 256 00:10:05,896 --> 00:10:07,440 to hear it plead first. 257 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:10,818 So I don't know what he will tell you precisely. 258 00:10:10,818 --> 00:10:14,488 Please know, however, that I all my confidence in you. 259 00:10:14,488 --> 00:10:19,243 We can think that the defense will ridicule excessively 260 00:10:19,243 --> 00:10:20,328 the Crown's evidence 261 00:10:20,328 --> 00:10:23,497 and plead that Gagné and Boutin are liars 262 00:10:23,497 --> 00:10:24,999 to make you buy your thesis. 263 00:10:24,999 --> 00:10:27,668 The defense will try to make you believe 264 00:10:27,668 --> 00:10:30,504 that the police have “planted” evidence. 265 00:10:30,504 --> 00:10:32,632 You will remember 266 00:10:32,632 --> 00:10:35,343 that she insinuated by cross-examining Gagné 267 00:10:35,343 --> 00:10:37,803 that it did not appear, that he wasn't tired 268 00:10:37,803 --> 00:10:39,847 the night of his interrogation. 269 00:10:39,847 --> 00:10:43,017 And so he invented everything 270 00:10:43,017 --> 00:10:46,312 because he had not revealed from the night of his arrest 271 00:10:46,312 --> 00:10:47,772 Boucher's involvement. 272 00:10:47,772 --> 00:10:49,565 - I have nothing to tell you. 273 00:10:49,565 --> 00:10:53,486 - The defense will tell you that Gagné lied 274 00:10:53,486 --> 00:10:55,780 because he was reluctant to speak 275 00:10:55,780 --> 00:10:57,907 before signing a contract. 276 00:10:57,907 --> 00:11:00,660 First of all... Gagné revealed 277 00:11:00,660 --> 00:11:03,704 the essentials of Boucher's involvement 278 00:11:03,704 --> 00:11:05,081 in the murders of the guards, 279 00:11:05,081 --> 00:11:08,668 and this, well before signing of his informer contract. 280 00:11:08,668 --> 00:11:12,880 From December 6, 1997, it implicated Boucher. 281 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:17,343 And on December 8 1997, everything was said. 282 00:11:17,343 --> 00:11:21,347 It was of no use that evening to go into all the details, 283 00:11:21,347 --> 00:11:24,934 Gagne was exhausted. 284 00:11:24,934 --> 00:11:27,978 And you have the video of his interrogation, 285 00:11:27,978 --> 00:11:29,355 I will ask you to look at her 286 00:11:29,355 --> 00:11:31,565 and listen to it until the end. 287 00:11:31,565 --> 00:11:33,859 You can then report for yourselves. 288 00:11:33,859 --> 00:11:35,486 - (Sylvain): You're not in a biker's room 289 00:11:35,486 --> 00:11:36,696 telling you about fears, 290 00:11:36,696 --> 00:11:37,822 There you are in a police station. 291 00:11:37,822 --> 00:11:39,824 You made mistakes, you're going to pay for it. 292 00:11:46,706 --> 00:11:48,249 - Ladies and gentlemen... 293 00:11:49,792 --> 00:11:53,170 you are gathered here to answer a question: 294 00:11:53,170 --> 00:11:56,340 has the Crown proven beyond reasonable doubt 295 00:11:56,340 --> 00:11:57,425 that the accused before you 296 00:11:57,425 --> 00:12:00,177 advised or encouraged Mr. Gagné 297 00:12:00,177 --> 00:12:03,055 to commit the murders of the 2 prison guards? 298 00:12:03,055 --> 00:12:06,892 There must be, no a probability of guilt, 299 00:12:06,892 --> 00:12:09,145 you need to be certain 300 00:12:09,145 --> 00:12:11,897 that the thesis of the Crown is the right one. 301 00:12:11,897 --> 00:12:14,942 The testimony of Mr. Gagné is central. 302 00:12:14,942 --> 00:12:16,610 This is the essential basis 303 00:12:16,610 --> 00:12:18,446 of the accusation presented to you. 304 00:12:18,446 --> 00:12:23,033 Without the testimony of Mr. Gagné, you are helpless. 305 00:12:23,993 --> 00:12:26,454 You are a vessel without mast or sails. 306 00:12:26,454 --> 00:12:27,747 You don't know where to go. 307 00:12:29,498 --> 00:12:32,752 Mr. Gagné is suspect. 308 00:12:34,044 --> 00:12:36,464 It is dangerous to believe it blindly. 309 00:12:38,674 --> 00:12:43,429 - On December 7, he recounts the murder of Mr. Pierre Rondeau 310 00:12:43,429 --> 00:12:46,140 and the attempt to murder of Mr. Corriveau, 311 00:12:46,140 --> 00:12:49,143 the surveillance he carried out for Fontaine, 312 00:12:49,143 --> 00:12:51,312 his involvement as well than that of Fontaine, 313 00:12:51,312 --> 00:12:54,398 the theft of the plate, the manufacturing of the false plate, 314 00:12:54,398 --> 00:12:58,319 the weapons used and the Laval fire. 315 00:12:58,319 --> 00:13:02,948 On December 8, 1997, he relates all the details 316 00:13:02,948 --> 00:13:05,326 of the murder of Ms. Diane Lavigne, 317 00:13:05,326 --> 00:13:06,911 as well as the different meetings 318 00:13:06,911 --> 00:13:08,829 that he had with Mr. Boucher 319 00:13:08,829 --> 00:13:11,081 and all the words that he held to her 320 00:13:11,081 --> 00:13:13,584 during each of his meetings with him. 321 00:13:13,584 --> 00:13:17,171 Ten days before signing of his informer contract, 322 00:13:17,171 --> 00:13:19,799 Gagné had already revealed everything. 323 00:13:22,009 --> 00:13:25,346 If the speakers of the judicial system 324 00:13:25,346 --> 00:13:28,682 do not give contracts to repentant witnesses, 325 00:13:28,682 --> 00:13:30,476 who else could come and testify 326 00:13:30,476 --> 00:13:33,020 in cases involving organized crime? 327 00:13:33,020 --> 00:13:35,314 Who can approach of these people, 328 00:13:35,314 --> 00:13:38,609 otherwise, people themselves criminalized 329 00:13:38,609 --> 00:13:40,486 at the time when Are they part of it? 330 00:13:42,404 --> 00:13:44,824 To climb the ladder, 331 00:13:44,824 --> 00:13:46,700 you have to be heavily criminalized 332 00:13:46,700 --> 00:13:49,286 since it is necessary commit crimes. 333 00:13:53,541 --> 00:13:57,169 - (Mr. Brunelle): I recalls Mr. Gagné's past. 334 00:13:57,169 --> 00:14:02,007 His criminal nature, hardened, devoid of all scruples, 335 00:14:02,007 --> 00:14:03,843 with all respect for others, 336 00:14:03,843 --> 00:14:06,011 with all respect for their physical integrity, 337 00:14:06,011 --> 00:14:08,097 with all respect for the truth. 338 00:14:08,097 --> 00:14:10,724 In short, with all respect the moral values which, 339 00:14:10,724 --> 00:14:13,477 for you, for me, obviously, go without saying. 340 00:14:14,895 --> 00:14:17,147 You saw what he has made with Mr. Bellemare. 341 00:14:17,147 --> 00:14:21,402 Mr. Gagné took the decision to kill him. 342 00:14:21,402 --> 00:14:24,572 He lied to her to lure her in a deserted place 343 00:14:24,572 --> 00:14:27,575 or it might be useful in a marijuana greenhouse 344 00:14:27,575 --> 00:14:28,450 to pay his debt. 345 00:14:28,450 --> 00:14:32,079 And there, he and his accomplice, Steve Boies, 346 00:14:32,079 --> 00:14:33,247 first fired a few bullets 347 00:14:33,247 --> 00:14:35,165 towards the unhappy Bellemare, 348 00:14:35,165 --> 00:14:37,918 who survived these shots. 349 00:14:37,918 --> 00:14:40,588 A horrible scene, you remember it. 350 00:14:40,588 --> 00:14:44,675 Mr. Gagné and Mr. Boies were two on the victim, 351 00:14:44,675 --> 00:14:46,760 who had 2 balls in the body, 352 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:48,429 and they tried to strangle him. 353 00:14:48,429 --> 00:14:49,305 - For what? 354 00:14:49,305 --> 00:14:51,432 - Mr. Gagné risked at any time 355 00:14:51,432 --> 00:14:54,143 to be accused of this attempted murder. 356 00:14:54,143 --> 00:14:56,478 Mr. Boies becomes an informer. 357 00:14:56,478 --> 00:14:58,772 He knows enough about Gagné 358 00:14:58,772 --> 00:15:00,274 to involve him in the assassination 359 00:15:00,274 --> 00:15:01,984 of the guardian of prison, Mr. Rondeau, 360 00:15:01,984 --> 00:15:04,445 since he helped him install the false plate. 361 00:15:04,445 --> 00:15:05,946 He saw in the newspaper 362 00:15:05,946 --> 00:15:08,115 that the famous caravan with the fake plate 363 00:15:08,115 --> 00:15:09,283 was used for the murder. 364 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,288 He saw in the newspaper that he set fire to the caravan. 365 00:15:14,288 --> 00:15:15,915 He saw Gagne on the day of the murder, 366 00:15:15,915 --> 00:15:18,125 he saw that he was burned. 367 00:15:18,125 --> 00:15:20,920 Mr. Gagné is strongly hooked on this matter, 368 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,297 which, as you know, 369 00:15:23,297 --> 00:15:26,175 worth the most severe punishment which exists in Canadian law, 370 00:15:26,175 --> 00:15:27,927 in this crime Canadian, 371 00:15:27,927 --> 00:15:32,222 i.e. imprisonment in perpetuity with 25 years firm. 372 00:15:34,266 --> 00:15:38,062 - The danger here would be to isolate or take them out of context 373 00:15:38,062 --> 00:15:39,980 certain elements of evidence. 374 00:15:39,980 --> 00:15:42,650 Take for example the following sentence 375 00:15:42,650 --> 00:15:46,487 said by Boucher according to Gagné's testimony: 376 00:15:46,487 --> 00:15:47,988 “It’s beautiful, my Godasse. 377 00:15:47,988 --> 00:15:50,032 It doesn't matter if she had nipples." 378 00:15:50,032 --> 00:15:52,826 This sentence in itself doesn't mean anything, 379 00:15:52,826 --> 00:15:57,247 but put in context, it takes on its full meaning. 380 00:15:57,247 --> 00:16:00,000 Mrs Lavigne, prison guard, 381 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,003 just got killed, the day before these remarks. 382 00:16:03,003 --> 00:16:05,047 Won, who wasn't supposed to be on the spot, 383 00:16:05,047 --> 00:16:08,050 wishes that the boss, Mr. Boucher, 384 00:16:08,050 --> 00:16:11,095 know it was him, Tousignant's accomplice. 385 00:16:11,095 --> 00:16:14,014 In fact, he wishes that Boucher congratulates him. 386 00:16:14,014 --> 00:16:16,767 And it is exactly what he did. 387 00:16:16,767 --> 00:16:19,770 Gagné tells us that he have no doubt 388 00:16:19,770 --> 00:16:20,896 that the order comes from above, 389 00:16:20,896 --> 00:16:22,898 because to commit this kind of crime 390 00:16:22,898 --> 00:16:25,526 who puts so much heat on the organization, 391 00:16:25,526 --> 00:16:28,404 the order must comes from above, 392 00:16:28,404 --> 00:16:31,365 otherwise he would be himself killed by the organization. 393 00:16:31,365 --> 00:16:34,535 And when you are pleaded the principle of barriers, 394 00:16:34,535 --> 00:16:36,870 that is to say the top don't talk down, 395 00:16:36,870 --> 00:16:40,541 please remember from the video of December 5, 1997, 396 00:16:40,541 --> 00:16:43,836 where we see Boucher present in his pickup 397 00:16:43,836 --> 00:16:45,879 with Gagné and Tousignant. 398 00:16:45,879 --> 00:16:48,257 Don't we see only one certain complicity 399 00:16:48,257 --> 00:16:50,634 binds all three of them? 400 00:16:50,634 --> 00:16:54,847 What other conclusion logical and reasonable 401 00:16:54,847 --> 00:16:56,932 can we arrive from the sentence: 402 00:16:56,932 --> 00:16:58,183 “It’s beautiful, my Godasse, 403 00:16:58,183 --> 00:17:00,102 it doesn't matter if she had nipples", 404 00:17:00,102 --> 00:17:03,897 except that Boucher indicated that way to Gagné 405 00:17:03,897 --> 00:17:05,733 that he was satisfied with the result 406 00:17:05,733 --> 00:17:09,319 and that the mission was good fulfilled despite this gap? 407 00:17:10,446 --> 00:17:14,408 Remember the exchange between Boutin and Boucher 408 00:17:14,408 --> 00:17:16,869 on the evening of December 6, 1997. 409 00:17:16,869 --> 00:17:18,662 - Police! - Hands on your head! 410 00:17:18,662 --> 00:17:22,499 - Boutin and Boies are arrested on the evening of December 4. 411 00:17:24,209 --> 00:17:26,128 - You, Gagné, you go out! 412 00:17:26,128 --> 00:17:28,422 - Won on the 5th. 413 00:17:28,422 --> 00:17:30,799 Gagné and Bois did not never been released, 414 00:17:30,799 --> 00:17:35,679 while Boutin was on the evening of December 6, 1997. 415 00:17:35,679 --> 00:17:40,601 And immediately its restoration freedom, Boutin goes to see Boucher. 416 00:17:40,601 --> 00:17:43,145 And while they are in the parking lot, 417 00:17:43,145 --> 00:17:45,606 Boucher looks at Boutin and said to him: 418 00:17:45,606 --> 00:17:49,193 “Yeah, Monuncle…” speaking of Steve Boies, 419 00:17:49,193 --> 00:17:50,277 "...it's not strong." 420 00:17:50,277 --> 00:17:53,072 And there, Boucher will join Robitaille 421 00:17:53,072 --> 00:17:55,199 to take a walk with him, 422 00:17:55,199 --> 00:17:58,118 and Boutin hears Butcher tell Robitaille... 423 00:17:58,118 --> 00:18:00,454 - We're all going to get arrested. 424 00:18:01,789 --> 00:18:04,958 - But now let's put it back conversation in context. 425 00:18:04,958 --> 00:18:08,754 A few hours earlier, according to telephone conversations 426 00:18:08,754 --> 00:18:11,048 which could be captured December 6, 427 00:18:11,048 --> 00:18:14,551 Butcher, Robitaille and Tousignant 428 00:18:14,551 --> 00:18:17,846 are worried about what happens to Gagné. 429 00:18:17,846 --> 00:18:21,141 Not a word about Boies! 430 00:18:21,141 --> 00:18:24,436 At noon, Butcher learn from Tousignant 431 00:18:24,436 --> 00:18:27,147 that Gagné is accused of murder and attempted murder. 432 00:18:27,147 --> 00:18:29,441 - Yeah... they have arrested Godasse yesterday. 433 00:18:29,441 --> 00:18:30,776 - Yeah. 434 00:18:30,776 --> 00:18:33,153 - A load they took out of the attempted murder... 435 00:18:33,153 --> 00:18:34,822 - They didn't want stop it with me. 436 00:18:34,822 --> 00:18:35,781 - No, that shouldn't be the case. 437 00:18:35,781 --> 00:18:37,032 I don't know where he got arrested. 438 00:18:37,032 --> 00:18:39,368 I passed in front of them yesterday. Full of oxen. 439 00:18:39,368 --> 00:18:41,328 - OK, look, I'm at home. 440 00:18:41,328 --> 00:18:42,871 - Okay, bye. - Bye. 441 00:18:44,081 --> 00:18:46,667 - At a quarter past twelve, the news begins to spread 442 00:18:46,667 --> 00:18:48,961 to the effect that Gagné would have become an informer. 443 00:18:48,961 --> 00:18:51,338 But Boucher refuses to admit it. 444 00:18:51,338 --> 00:18:54,508 At 1:20 p.m., Boucher learns that lawyers 445 00:18:54,508 --> 00:18:56,718 cannot enter contact with Gagné. 446 00:18:56,718 --> 00:18:58,262 And despite this new fact 447 00:18:58,262 --> 00:19:01,431 which gives Boucher a additional indication 448 00:19:01,431 --> 00:19:03,559 to the effect that Gagné became an informer, 449 00:19:03,559 --> 00:19:05,727 he still refuses to admit it. 450 00:19:05,727 --> 00:19:07,187 For what? 451 00:19:07,187 --> 00:19:09,898 Because admit it amounted to admitting 452 00:19:09,898 --> 00:19:12,609 that the whole plan that he had designed 453 00:19:12,609 --> 00:19:15,487 so that the people around him do not become informers 454 00:19:15,487 --> 00:19:16,572 was collapsing. 455 00:19:16,572 --> 00:19:18,866 - It seems like Godasse would be fired as an informer. 456 00:19:18,866 --> 00:19:20,659 - Godasse? 457 00:19:21,577 --> 00:19:23,203 Well no, that's not true. 458 00:19:23,203 --> 00:19:26,331 - Admit that Gagné had become an informer 459 00:19:26,331 --> 00:19:31,211 amounted to admitting failure and that he was wrong. 460 00:19:31,211 --> 00:19:34,506 He can't believe that his protégé betrayed him. 461 00:19:34,506 --> 00:19:37,885 But finally, the news that Gagné became an informer 462 00:19:37,885 --> 00:19:42,890 arrives via Robitaille on December 8, 1997 at 4:11 p.m. 463 00:19:42,890 --> 00:19:43,974 - Good morning. 464 00:19:43,974 --> 00:19:45,559 - Ah, things are bad! - Oh yes? 465 00:19:45,559 --> 00:19:48,562 - He refused the lawyer then they were in front of him, there, 466 00:19:48,562 --> 00:19:50,522 He didn't say a word, then at some point, 467 00:19:50,522 --> 00:19:54,568 the pigs said he no longer needed a lawyer. 468 00:19:54,568 --> 00:19:56,737 Then he was there then he didn't say a word. 469 00:19:56,737 --> 00:19:57,946 - Misery... 470 00:19:57,946 --> 00:19:59,114 - Yeah. 471 00:19:59,114 --> 00:20:01,575 - It's in the solid. - It's solid. 472 00:20:01,575 --> 00:20:02,659 (sigh) 473 00:20:02,659 --> 00:20:04,745 Yeah, so that's what it is. 474 00:20:04,745 --> 00:20:06,538 - Okay, okay, there is nothing too beautiful. 475 00:20:06,538 --> 00:20:07,664 - Okay? - Hello, my friend. 476 00:20:07,664 --> 00:20:08,916 - Bye bye. 477 00:20:08,916 --> 00:20:12,669 - In this context, the sentence “we’re all going to get arrested” 478 00:20:12,669 --> 00:20:14,213 takes on its full meaning 479 00:20:14,213 --> 00:20:16,882 and explains the assassination by Tousignant... 480 00:20:19,051 --> 00:20:21,345 the disappearance of Fontaine 481 00:20:21,345 --> 00:20:24,348 and consciousness guilty of Boucher 482 00:20:24,348 --> 00:20:26,892 faced with the murder of prison guards. 483 00:20:29,102 --> 00:20:33,982 - On December 5, 1997, Mr. Gagné is questioned by Mr. Provencher. 484 00:20:33,982 --> 00:20:37,694 At first he refuses to do any statement whatsoever. 485 00:20:37,694 --> 00:20:42,241 And there, this man, guided solely by his interest, 486 00:20:42,241 --> 00:20:43,992 leaves the camera's field of view 487 00:20:43,992 --> 00:20:47,913 and has a confidential interview with Mr. Provencher. 488 00:20:47,913 --> 00:20:49,456 He asks him a question: 489 00:20:49,456 --> 00:20:53,043 "What is it worth if I become an informer?" 490 00:20:53,043 --> 00:20:54,294 He's looking for a way out 491 00:20:54,294 --> 00:20:56,338 to the situation in which he placed himself. 492 00:20:56,338 --> 00:20:58,966 Mr. Provencher him give as an example 493 00:20:58,966 --> 00:21:03,637 people who got away with it with 10-12 years prison term. 494 00:21:03,637 --> 00:21:06,848 From that moment on, and this, until December 18, 495 00:21:06,848 --> 00:21:08,016 where he meets the committee 496 00:21:08,016 --> 00:21:10,310 and the people who are in charge denunciation contracts, 497 00:21:10,310 --> 00:21:13,146 Mr. Gagné is convinced that he will have the same type of contract, 498 00:21:13,146 --> 00:21:15,190 i.e. 10-12 years firm, 499 00:21:15,190 --> 00:21:17,985 plus compensation able to climb 500 00:21:17,985 --> 00:21:21,363 to several hundred of thousands of dollars. 501 00:21:22,531 --> 00:21:24,741 A contract of denunciation, It’s a very simple contract. 502 00:21:24,741 --> 00:21:28,078 The State, on the one hand, buys a testimony to an informer, 503 00:21:28,078 --> 00:21:30,831 who, on the other hand, sells it to him. 504 00:21:30,831 --> 00:21:33,125 This is a testimonial sale. The state has the right to do that. 505 00:21:33,125 --> 00:21:35,168 Nobody other than the State has the right to do that. 506 00:21:35,168 --> 00:21:37,462 I don't have the right to do that. 507 00:21:37,462 --> 00:21:38,964 If a lawyer buys a testimony, 508 00:21:38,964 --> 00:21:41,008 he is disbarred. 509 00:21:41,008 --> 00:21:43,844 What is of interest to a such a contract for the State, 510 00:21:43,844 --> 00:21:46,179 this is the testimony that he gets. 511 00:21:46,179 --> 00:21:49,850 The more the State obtains, the more he will be interested in giving. 512 00:21:49,850 --> 00:21:52,352 This is the logic more basic. 513 00:21:52,352 --> 00:21:54,855 Mr. Gagné is therefore in a situation 514 00:21:54,855 --> 00:21:56,648 or its obvious interest, 515 00:21:56,648 --> 00:21:59,026 is to involve the most important people. 516 00:21:59,026 --> 00:22:02,529 This is what will give the value of his testimony. 517 00:22:02,529 --> 00:22:04,573 Now, ladies and gentlemen, 518 00:22:04,573 --> 00:22:07,534 in 1997, crimes the most important 519 00:22:07,534 --> 00:22:09,661 on which the police were investigating, 520 00:22:09,661 --> 00:22:11,997 it was the murders of the 2 prison guards. 521 00:22:11,997 --> 00:22:14,333 Murders almost without precedent in our history. 522 00:22:14,333 --> 00:22:15,625 Perfectly heinous murders 523 00:22:15,625 --> 00:22:17,544 who raised popular indignation 524 00:22:17,544 --> 00:22:19,838 and about which there was a lot of pressure 525 00:22:19,838 --> 00:22:22,507 on the police forces so that they can resolve them. 526 00:22:27,929 --> 00:22:31,016 - (Mr. Charbonneau): These crimes odious have as a backdrop 527 00:22:31,016 --> 00:22:32,184 the war being waged 528 00:22:32,184 --> 00:22:35,645 the Hells Angels and the Rock Machine since 1994. 529 00:22:35,645 --> 00:22:38,815 Two organizations criminals who want 530 00:22:38,815 --> 00:22:41,568 the expansion of the territory of one at the expense of the other 531 00:22:41,568 --> 00:22:44,029 to control the sale of narcotics. 532 00:22:44,029 --> 00:22:48,575 The real issues of this war so are the money 533 00:22:48,575 --> 00:22:50,410 and the power that comes from it. 534 00:22:50,410 --> 00:22:53,705 The source agents, informers... 535 00:22:55,374 --> 00:22:57,751 the informants... 536 00:22:58,710 --> 00:23:00,754 are therefore the worst enemies 537 00:23:00,754 --> 00:23:03,131 of these organizations heavily criminalized. 538 00:23:03,131 --> 00:23:07,094 Boucher decided to tackle it 539 00:23:07,094 --> 00:23:10,305 by trying to destabilize police forces 540 00:23:10,305 --> 00:23:12,724 by depriving them of this means of investigation. 541 00:23:12,724 --> 00:23:16,520 The plan, although Machiavellian, 542 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:18,355 disgusting and amoral, 543 00:23:18,355 --> 00:23:19,523 was simple. 544 00:23:19,523 --> 00:23:22,442 By killing prison guards, 545 00:23:22,442 --> 00:23:24,277 and when it doesn't would be more possible, 546 00:23:24,277 --> 00:23:28,323 police, judges, crowns, 547 00:23:28,323 --> 00:23:32,077 Boucher attacked to the justice system, 548 00:23:32,077 --> 00:23:35,580 a sacred institution. 549 00:23:36,456 --> 00:23:39,126 Ladies and gentlemen... 550 00:23:39,126 --> 00:23:42,546 Boucher underestimated 551 00:23:42,546 --> 00:23:46,091 the strength of the judicial system. 552 00:23:47,467 --> 00:23:49,719 He believed that the Crown would not negotiate with the one 553 00:23:49,719 --> 00:23:52,931 who would succeed in elucidating the murders of the guards. 554 00:23:54,975 --> 00:23:56,935 He was wrong. 555 00:23:58,145 --> 00:23:59,646 - So far, it's pretty polite. 556 00:23:59,646 --> 00:24:01,648 - No, but wait. That's how it works. 557 00:24:01,648 --> 00:24:02,649 He prepares his business, 558 00:24:02,649 --> 00:24:03,859 he builds his business little by little. 559 00:24:03,859 --> 00:24:05,485 - Thinking that a guy like Gagne 560 00:24:05,485 --> 00:24:07,154 can kill prison guards 561 00:24:07,154 --> 00:24:08,697 without seeing the approval of the big boss, 562 00:24:08,697 --> 00:24:10,282 for me it is almost impossible. 563 00:24:10,282 --> 00:24:11,575 - Good, Butcher could have said to him: 564 00:24:11,575 --> 00:24:12,659 "Kill a guard if you want, 565 00:24:12,659 --> 00:24:14,035 what do you want what does it matter to me?" 566 00:24:14,035 --> 00:24:15,662 - No, it's not just like it works. 567 00:24:15,662 --> 00:24:17,539 Kill a prison guard, it brings a lot of heat 568 00:24:17,539 --> 00:24:18,582 on the organization. 569 00:24:18,582 --> 00:24:20,333 - I understand. You know that. 570 00:24:20,333 --> 00:24:22,210 Bikers, This is your expertise. 571 00:24:22,210 --> 00:24:24,337 But the members of the jury They don't know that. 572 00:24:24,337 --> 00:24:27,174 They are the ones who need to be convinced. 573 00:24:27,174 --> 00:24:29,342 - Mr. Gagné participated to the murder of Mr. Rondeau 574 00:24:29,342 --> 00:24:31,970 on September 8, 1997. 575 00:24:31,970 --> 00:24:33,680 There is a person in this murder 576 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:35,807 who had a 357 revolver, 577 00:24:35,807 --> 00:24:37,726 who fired 6 bullets in the windshield 578 00:24:37,726 --> 00:24:39,311 and who killed the driver. 579 00:24:39,311 --> 00:24:42,355 The other person had a 9mm. 580 00:24:42,355 --> 00:24:45,150 She fired a first shot towards the windshield, 581 00:24:45,150 --> 00:24:46,193 the weapon jammed, 582 00:24:46,193 --> 00:24:47,194 and then she went 583 00:24:47,194 --> 00:24:48,487 fire 6 shots aside, 584 00:24:48,487 --> 00:24:51,031 always in the direction of the driver. 585 00:24:51,031 --> 00:24:54,075 Mr. Gagné says he is the one who had the 9mm. 586 00:24:55,535 --> 00:24:57,120 Saying that, he knows perfectly 587 00:24:57,120 --> 00:24:59,664 that participation in murder is less serious, 588 00:24:59,664 --> 00:25:01,833 since he didn't shoot just one bullet 589 00:25:01,833 --> 00:25:03,710 forward towards the driver, 590 00:25:03,710 --> 00:25:05,962 and the rest aside. 591 00:25:05,962 --> 00:25:08,715 Photo number 59 shows you bullet holes 592 00:25:08,715 --> 00:25:12,010 that was in the windshield of the bus in question. 593 00:25:12,010 --> 00:25:15,805 Perforation #1 is the work of the 9 mm. 594 00:25:15,805 --> 00:25:19,643 Perforations 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 595 00:25:19,643 --> 00:25:21,895 are connected to the 357 revolver. 596 00:25:21,895 --> 00:25:23,688 I cross-examined him on that 597 00:25:23,688 --> 00:25:26,900 in its first versions on December 7. 598 00:25:26,900 --> 00:25:29,945 I read his testimony to you when I ask him the question. 599 00:25:29,945 --> 00:25:34,324 “So your impact, you say that he is in the 5, 6, 7, 600 00:25:34,324 --> 00:25:37,369 if I understood correctly, is that it?” 601 00:25:37,369 --> 00:25:40,956 Answer: “That’s it.” 602 00:25:40,956 --> 00:25:44,376 Ladies and gentlemen, impacts 5, 6, 7 603 00:25:44,376 --> 00:25:45,627 were necessarily made 604 00:25:45,627 --> 00:25:47,754 by the man who had the 357 revolver. 605 00:25:47,754 --> 00:25:50,465 If Mr. Gagné is telling the truth when he says he made the impacts, 606 00:25:50,465 --> 00:25:52,717 or impact 5, 6 and/or 7, 607 00:25:52,717 --> 00:25:55,512 he is the one who had the 357 revolver. 608 00:25:55,512 --> 00:25:57,305 He is the one who killed Mr. Rondeau, 609 00:25:57,305 --> 00:25:59,766 contrary to what he says. 610 00:25:59,766 --> 00:26:04,020 Remember, an accusation of a single murder, 611 00:26:04,020 --> 00:26:05,272 it's perpetuity 612 00:26:05,272 --> 00:26:08,275 with possibility of release conditional after 17 years. 613 00:26:08,275 --> 00:26:10,777 A charge of 2 murders... 614 00:26:10,777 --> 00:26:12,195 It's perpetuity 615 00:26:12,195 --> 00:26:16,157 without possibility of release conditional before age 25. 616 00:26:19,035 --> 00:26:20,912 - Boucher could still, at that time, 617 00:26:20,912 --> 00:26:22,956 believe in the validity of his plan 618 00:26:22,956 --> 00:26:25,500 despite the failure of one of its components, 619 00:26:25,500 --> 00:26:27,043 because he was sure 620 00:26:27,043 --> 00:26:29,963 that the Crown would not negotiate not with a guard killer. 621 00:26:31,673 --> 00:26:33,967 Why do you believe that the Defense 622 00:26:33,967 --> 00:26:36,636 Gagne asked. with so much contempt? 623 00:26:36,636 --> 00:26:37,929 - You said that it was Fontaine. 624 00:26:37,929 --> 00:26:39,973 Where is the truth? 625 00:26:41,308 --> 00:26:43,476 - Of disgust, of condescension. 626 00:26:43,476 --> 00:26:46,313 Otherwise, to try to destroy it. 627 00:26:46,313 --> 00:26:49,941 Otherwise, to pass it on for the worst liar. 628 00:26:49,941 --> 00:26:51,693 - Why do you say that to the policeman? 629 00:26:51,693 --> 00:26:54,029 You were rested on December 8th. 630 00:26:54,029 --> 00:26:56,615 You were very good prepared for this testimony. 631 00:26:56,615 --> 00:26:57,741 Is that your answer? 632 00:26:57,741 --> 00:26:59,242 What are you had anything else to do? 633 00:27:02,245 --> 00:27:04,205 - (Mr. Charbonneau): How did Gagné seem to you? 634 00:27:04,205 --> 00:27:05,999 throughout these 7 days interrogation, 635 00:27:05,999 --> 00:27:07,626 cross-examination? 636 00:27:08,668 --> 00:27:11,504 Isn't he always, despite everything, 637 00:27:11,504 --> 00:27:14,799 remained polite, courteous, patient, 638 00:27:14,799 --> 00:27:16,760 attentive, so as to relate to you 639 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,430 to the best of his memory everything he had experienced? 640 00:27:20,430 --> 00:27:24,684 The defense will go to the point of reproaching him 641 00:27:24,684 --> 00:27:25,894 for having himself confessed, 642 00:27:25,894 --> 00:27:28,104 without anyone having asked about this, 643 00:27:28,104 --> 00:27:32,192 than a psychological report revealed in 1998 644 00:27:32,192 --> 00:27:34,944 that he had a personality narcissistic and antisocial. 645 00:27:34,944 --> 00:27:37,697 But the defense will also fail to say 646 00:27:37,697 --> 00:27:40,367 that he mentioned working on it ever since. 647 00:27:42,035 --> 00:27:45,789 - It is dangerous to convict an accused 648 00:27:45,789 --> 00:27:47,707 based on testimonies of crazy witnesses 649 00:27:47,707 --> 00:27:49,542 like Gagné or Boutin. 650 00:27:49,542 --> 00:27:52,128 Unless you are absolutely convinced 651 00:27:52,128 --> 00:27:55,173 that they came here to tell the truth, 652 00:27:55,173 --> 00:27:57,676 the whole truth, nothing but the truth, 653 00:27:57,676 --> 00:28:00,595 as required by the oath that they uttered. 654 00:28:00,595 --> 00:28:02,097 Now, I ask you: 655 00:28:02,097 --> 00:28:05,058 how can you have this confidence 656 00:28:05,058 --> 00:28:07,811 while they have lied under oath? 657 00:28:08,895 --> 00:28:11,815 If you don't believe, Mr. Gagné, what you have left, 658 00:28:11,815 --> 00:28:14,067 the escape, the conversations telephone, 659 00:28:14,067 --> 00:28:17,404 all you have left is wind is smoke. 660 00:28:17,404 --> 00:28:21,032 Without the testimony of Mr. Gagné, these are not certainties. 661 00:28:21,032 --> 00:28:24,411 These are... riddles. 662 00:28:25,578 --> 00:28:27,706 However, on the basis of these riddles... 663 00:28:29,332 --> 00:28:31,876 you cannot condemn. 664 00:28:35,255 --> 00:28:38,258 - Why have so humiliated Gagne? 665 00:28:38,258 --> 00:28:42,387 Why did you lower it? in front of a packed room? 666 00:28:42,387 --> 00:28:43,930 For what? 667 00:28:43,930 --> 00:28:47,767 Otherwise because if you believe Gagne a little, 668 00:28:47,767 --> 00:28:50,270 in part or in whole, 669 00:28:50,270 --> 00:28:51,604 as for conversations 670 00:28:51,604 --> 00:28:54,023 that he reports having had with Boucher... 671 00:28:54,023 --> 00:28:56,776 only one verdict is possible. 672 00:28:56,776 --> 00:28:58,820 And it's guilty. 673 00:28:58,820 --> 00:29:01,114 On all counts. 674 00:29:02,365 --> 00:29:05,118 This proof alone... 675 00:29:05,118 --> 00:29:08,163 leads to a single verdict. 676 00:29:11,458 --> 00:29:13,376 The only opinion that counts 677 00:29:13,376 --> 00:29:16,671 on the credibility of witnesses and the facts of the case 678 00:29:16,671 --> 00:29:18,089 is yours. 679 00:29:19,090 --> 00:29:21,718 The judge's interpretation, defense, 680 00:29:21,718 --> 00:29:23,970 on the facts of the case does not count. 681 00:29:23,970 --> 00:29:25,346 No more than mine, besides. 682 00:29:25,346 --> 00:29:27,265 It's yours that counts. 683 00:29:29,309 --> 00:29:32,020 I hope that your deliberations are calm. 684 00:29:33,938 --> 00:29:36,149 I put all my trust in yourself 685 00:29:36,149 --> 00:29:38,109 so that justice is done. 686 00:29:39,861 --> 00:29:41,529 Thank you. 687 00:29:42,655 --> 00:29:44,532 Well done. 688 00:29:51,915 --> 00:29:54,125 - Already a day of deliberation of the past. 689 00:29:54,125 --> 00:29:55,627 - We won't start to count them, 690 00:29:55,627 --> 00:29:57,295 we will not surrender at the end of the week. 691 00:29:57,295 --> 00:29:59,380 - The longer it is, the more it promotes defense 692 00:29:59,380 --> 00:30:00,465 what they say, right? 693 00:30:00,465 --> 00:30:01,633 - They say a lot of things, 694 00:30:01,633 --> 00:30:04,052 but we are not in the head jurors to find out. 695 00:30:04,052 --> 00:30:06,137 - The judge received a message from the jury. 696 00:30:08,515 --> 00:30:09,808 - We're going to go see that. 697 00:30:25,990 --> 00:30:28,284 - The members of the jury told me so make a request, 698 00:30:28,284 --> 00:30:30,036 so I'm going you read the question. 699 00:30:30,036 --> 00:30:32,205 "Can we have access to declaration documents 700 00:30:32,205 --> 00:30:37,001 "of December 7 and 8, 1997 by Stéphane Gagné, 701 00:30:37,001 --> 00:30:40,004 "to which Brunelle relates regularly referred 702 00:30:40,004 --> 00:30:41,589 "during his cross-examination? 703 00:30:41,589 --> 00:30:42,674 Thank you." 704 00:30:42,674 --> 00:30:45,093 What is your position, Ms. Brunelle? 705 00:30:45,093 --> 00:30:46,719 - Your Lordship, the proof is closed. 706 00:30:46,719 --> 00:30:48,555 Without my consent, it's no. 707 00:30:48,555 --> 00:30:50,390 There are 90% of these these statements 708 00:30:50,390 --> 00:30:53,184 which have not been read, It's not part of the evidence. 709 00:30:53,184 --> 00:30:54,978 - And what is your position, Mr. Charbonneau? 710 00:30:54,978 --> 00:30:57,355 - I don't object. 711 00:30:57,355 --> 00:30:59,774 - Mr. Justice, I object. 712 00:30:59,774 --> 00:31:01,067 - Then it's no. 713 00:31:06,739 --> 00:31:08,116 - Sylvain! Sylvain! 714 00:31:08,116 --> 00:31:10,326 - No, no Alex, I'm not talking to journalists, you know that. 715 00:31:10,326 --> 00:31:11,995 - Come on, listen, before becoming a journalist, 716 00:31:11,995 --> 00:31:14,038 I was your old one left winger in hockey! 717 00:31:14,038 --> 00:31:15,456 - You never passed the puck, 718 00:31:15,456 --> 00:31:17,584 don't expect me put that on the palette! 719 00:31:17,584 --> 00:31:18,585 It works on both sides! 720 00:31:18,585 --> 00:31:20,086 - Ah! did you see the pig move 721 00:31:20,086 --> 00:31:21,546 what McLaren did to Zednick? 722 00:31:21,546 --> 00:31:23,214 (interspersed words) 723 00:31:23,214 --> 00:31:24,757 OK, look, no notebook or anything... 724 00:31:24,757 --> 00:31:25,925 Let's say that there has something 725 00:31:25,925 --> 00:31:27,093 what you would have liked to see at the trial 726 00:31:27,093 --> 00:31:28,595 then the jury did not seen, what would it be? 727 00:31:28,595 --> 00:31:30,263 - The similar act. 728 00:31:30,263 --> 00:31:32,432 They tried to kill Paul Desmarais 729 00:31:32,432 --> 00:31:34,225 at the exit of penitentiary in Laval 730 00:31:34,225 --> 00:31:36,644 because they thought that he was a prison guard. 731 00:31:36,644 --> 00:31:37,896 Finally, it was just a guy 732 00:31:37,896 --> 00:31:39,188 came to give a conference to inmates. 733 00:31:39,188 --> 00:31:40,815 The fact that, Desmarais in question, he is not dead, 734 00:31:40,815 --> 00:31:43,318 but the modus operandi, I tell you, it's the same thing. 735 00:31:43,318 --> 00:31:45,612 They are waiting for the guy, the motorbike, the weapons. 736 00:31:45,612 --> 00:31:47,947 They burn everything afterwards. It's the same. 737 00:31:47,947 --> 00:31:49,073 - OK, then this, it's not long 738 00:31:49,073 --> 00:31:50,450 after Lavigne's murder? 739 00:31:50,450 --> 00:31:51,534 - It's 2 days later. 740 00:31:51,534 --> 00:31:52,785 (sigh) 741 00:31:52,785 --> 00:31:54,621 - Then you know who did this? 742 00:31:54,621 --> 00:31:55,830 - We know it, but don't write it down, 743 00:31:55,830 --> 00:31:58,333 because between knowledge then prove, there is a whole world. 744 00:31:58,333 --> 00:32:00,293 - In any case, I'm looking the murders of the guards, 745 00:32:00,293 --> 00:32:02,462 I mean, it's wrong over error. 746 00:32:02,462 --> 00:32:04,797 - You know, Alex, when you're war, you need soldiers. 747 00:32:04,797 --> 00:32:05,798 Make you open the books, 748 00:32:05,798 --> 00:32:06,925 you start “patching” 749 00:32:06,925 --> 00:32:08,593 anyone anyhow, 750 00:32:08,593 --> 00:32:11,554 you get together with wannabes who do wannabe jobs. 751 00:32:11,554 --> 00:32:13,723 - Do you think that the jury, after 6 weeks of trial, 752 00:32:13,723 --> 00:32:15,016 can understand that? 753 00:32:15,016 --> 00:32:16,434 - They're not there to understand. 754 00:32:16,434 --> 00:32:19,145 They are there to judge of the strength of the evidence. 755 00:32:19,145 --> 00:32:21,940 - The members of the jury would like to listen 756 00:32:21,940 --> 00:32:23,232 recordings pleadings 757 00:32:23,232 --> 00:32:24,817 Crown attorneys and defense. 758 00:32:24,817 --> 00:32:26,486 Do you have any anything to say there? 759 00:32:28,488 --> 00:32:30,490 - No, Your Lordship. 760 00:32:30,490 --> 00:32:33,451 - Um... it's going to be long. 761 00:32:34,452 --> 00:32:35,954 - There is a decision very recent 762 00:32:35,954 --> 00:32:39,374 in 59 Canadian Criminal Cases 763 00:32:39,374 --> 00:32:42,377 or the judge began by saying to the jury: "It's going to be long." 764 00:32:42,377 --> 00:32:45,505 And the Court of Appeal said: “No, we can’t say that.” 765 00:32:45,505 --> 00:32:46,756 They overturned the verdict. 766 00:32:46,756 --> 00:32:49,926 So, I don't intend to tell them “it’s going to be long”. 767 00:32:49,926 --> 00:32:52,303 - No. Don't say that. 768 00:32:54,681 --> 00:32:57,266 (screams of enthusiasm) 769 00:33:00,603 --> 00:33:04,107 ♪ ♪ ♪ 770 00:33:08,903 --> 00:33:10,029 - Ah! 771 00:33:10,029 --> 00:33:11,531 - The jury of the Superior Court, 772 00:33:11,531 --> 00:33:13,366 who has been deliberating since more than 9 days 773 00:33:13,366 --> 00:33:15,118 in the Maurice Boucher affair, 774 00:33:15,118 --> 00:33:16,494 is still in deadlock this morning 775 00:33:16,494 --> 00:33:19,247 when continuing his work. 776 00:33:19,247 --> 00:33:20,957 In fact, there is no still no verdict 777 00:33:20,957 --> 00:33:23,876 and no questions either the cause since last Saturday. 778 00:33:23,876 --> 00:33:27,380 Jurors must decide whether the accused is guilty or not 779 00:33:27,380 --> 00:33:29,882 for ordering the murder 2 prison guards 780 00:33:29,882 --> 00:33:31,801 in Laval and Montreal in... 781 00:33:31,801 --> 00:33:34,053 (phone ringing) 782 00:33:37,432 --> 00:33:38,975 - Yes, hello? 783 00:33:38,975 --> 00:33:40,393 Yes. 784 00:33:41,686 --> 00:33:42,729 A verdict? 785 00:33:44,522 --> 00:33:46,274 Okay, I'm coming. 786 00:33:48,776 --> 00:33:52,196 - I have received your message about your incapacity... 787 00:33:53,573 --> 00:33:56,743 after 9 days, yours hear a unanimous verdict. 788 00:33:56,743 --> 00:33:58,578 These are things that happen. 789 00:33:58,578 --> 00:34:02,206 You took an oath to render an impartial verdict... 790 00:34:03,541 --> 00:34:07,503 based on evidence, and to make do your best to achieve this. 791 00:34:07,503 --> 00:34:10,965 I ask you to keep an open mind 792 00:34:10,965 --> 00:34:15,511 and carefully examine the point of view of your colleagues. 793 00:34:15,511 --> 00:34:17,597 It's about deepening your reflection on the evidence 794 00:34:17,597 --> 00:34:20,308 to see if you can reach an agreement 795 00:34:20,308 --> 00:34:22,560 and render a unanimous verdict. 796 00:34:24,604 --> 00:34:27,065 So everything else rests in your hands. 797 00:34:28,524 --> 00:34:30,234 THANKS. 798 00:34:33,780 --> 00:34:36,407 - Hey, I can't believe! After all this time. 799 00:34:36,407 --> 00:34:38,284 - Hey, hear him say: “You need to be comfortable 800 00:34:38,284 --> 00:34:40,286 "with your decision, that will follow you throughout your life"... 801 00:34:40,286 --> 00:34:42,705 - No. No comment. 802 00:34:43,873 --> 00:34:46,584 Undue pressure, then I I wouldn't mind telling him. 803 00:34:46,584 --> 00:34:48,961 - Do you see yourself doing this again? trial again? 804 00:34:48,961 --> 00:34:50,254 - (sighing): Ah, Sylvain! 805 00:35:00,932 --> 00:35:01,974 - I didn't want to talk to you about it 806 00:35:01,974 --> 00:35:03,559 because I found not that necessary, 807 00:35:03,559 --> 00:35:05,812 but you know the trial of 4 members of the Hells Angels, 808 00:35:05,812 --> 00:35:07,814 Lennoxville, 86... 809 00:35:07,814 --> 00:35:11,234 It's Judge Boilard who presided over the trial. 810 00:35:11,234 --> 00:35:13,402 Juror #8 raised his hand at some point 811 00:35:13,402 --> 00:35:15,947 to say that he had was purchased for $25,000 812 00:35:15,947 --> 00:35:17,865 on the 11th day of deliberation. 813 00:35:17,865 --> 00:35:19,325 - Don't talk to me about that. 814 00:35:19,325 --> 00:35:21,327 - Yes, but I can't do it other than thinking... 815 00:35:21,327 --> 00:35:23,162 So, the juror in question was found guilty 816 00:35:23,162 --> 00:35:24,831 to have been bribed, he bailed 817 00:35:24,831 --> 00:35:27,041 one year in prison for that the briber 818 00:35:27,041 --> 00:35:28,626 was found not guilty for having bribed him. 819 00:35:28,626 --> 00:35:29,961 Find me one logic there. 820 00:35:29,961 --> 00:35:31,003 - I know, Sylvain! 821 00:35:31,003 --> 00:35:32,380 It's Luc Desbiens then René Domingue 822 00:35:32,380 --> 00:35:33,422 who were carrying out this trial. 823 00:35:33,422 --> 00:35:35,174 - OK, did you know that? - Yes. 824 00:35:35,174 --> 00:35:36,801 I just wanted don't remember it. 825 00:35:36,801 --> 00:35:38,136 - Okay. 826 00:35:38,136 --> 00:35:40,555 (phone ringing) 827 00:35:42,223 --> 00:35:44,142 - Yes, hello? 828 00:35:47,770 --> 00:35:49,188 I'm coming. 829 00:35:52,859 --> 00:35:54,443 We have a verdict. 830 00:36:16,382 --> 00:36:19,886 - So, hello again one last time times, ladies and gentlemen. 831 00:36:19,886 --> 00:36:22,555 So I read the message which was sent to me. 832 00:36:22,555 --> 00:36:27,101 "Mr. Judge, we are ready to give our verdict. 833 00:36:27,101 --> 00:36:29,395 The jury." 834 00:36:29,395 --> 00:36:32,440 So I put it down under the last symbol J. 835 00:36:33,566 --> 00:36:34,483 Thank you. 836 00:36:34,483 --> 00:36:36,360 So, before you give verdict, 837 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,405 I would still like you say a few words 838 00:36:39,405 --> 00:36:42,325 which, you will perhaps see, are a summary 839 00:36:42,325 --> 00:36:44,994 from what I already told you a little every evening 840 00:36:44,994 --> 00:36:46,913 for 11 days now. 841 00:36:46,913 --> 00:36:50,499 You are about to make a verdict that I don't know 842 00:36:50,499 --> 00:36:53,169 and that I will learn at the same time time than everyone else. 843 00:36:53,169 --> 00:36:56,255 This is a courageous verdict. 844 00:36:56,255 --> 00:36:59,634 Indeed, if there is one of guilt, 845 00:36:59,634 --> 00:37:02,136 you surely realize that it is not easy 846 00:37:02,136 --> 00:37:04,305 to make a decision which has the effect 847 00:37:04,305 --> 00:37:07,266 to deprive someone of their freedom for a period... 848 00:37:07,266 --> 00:37:08,935 Obviously, some people 849 00:37:08,935 --> 00:37:11,187 will be disappointed with your decision. 850 00:37:11,187 --> 00:37:13,064 It is impossible to please everyone. 851 00:37:13,064 --> 00:37:15,024 But you will have earned their respect... 852 00:37:15,024 --> 00:37:18,945 I use the term “legitimacy” because he is popular. 853 00:37:18,945 --> 00:37:21,447 Popular in the sense the noblest of the term. 854 00:37:21,447 --> 00:37:23,449 When we talk about popular justice, 855 00:37:23,449 --> 00:37:25,493 we think too often about excess 856 00:37:25,493 --> 00:37:28,287 which can be the lot of a justice arising from prejudice... 857 00:37:28,287 --> 00:37:30,539 I think you understand now 858 00:37:30,539 --> 00:37:32,375 to what extent the act of justice 859 00:37:32,375 --> 00:37:35,044 is an act of great nobility 860 00:37:35,044 --> 00:37:37,588 and an important achievement of civilization. 861 00:37:40,299 --> 00:37:42,969 Once again, in the name of the company, thank you. 862 00:37:44,303 --> 00:37:45,471 (blowing) 863 00:37:45,471 --> 00:37:46,472 Now, Mr. Boucher, 864 00:37:46,472 --> 00:37:48,307 if you would like to get up. 865 00:37:52,478 --> 00:37:56,482 - Ladies and gentlemen, who will speak on your behalf? 866 00:37:57,817 --> 00:38:00,319 - This is juror number 7. 867 00:38:00,319 --> 00:38:03,447 - Do all members of the jury agree 868 00:38:03,447 --> 00:38:06,450 on the same and unique verdict 869 00:38:06,450 --> 00:38:08,619 on the 3 counts? 870 00:38:08,619 --> 00:38:09,787 - Yes. 871 00:38:09,787 --> 00:38:11,956 - What is this verdict? 872 00:38:12,999 --> 00:38:14,792 - Guilty. 873 00:38:14,792 --> 00:38:16,836 (slight hubbub) 874 00:38:16,836 --> 00:38:18,546 (sigh of relief) 875 00:38:40,651 --> 00:38:42,653 - As it is today Sunday, 876 00:38:42,653 --> 00:38:45,072 and that Sunday is a legal day off. 877 00:38:45,072 --> 00:38:48,326 I will be back tomorrow for the pronouncement of the sentence. 878 00:38:48,326 --> 00:38:49,660 THANKS. 879 00:38:58,627 --> 00:39:01,005 ♪ ♪ ♪ 880 00:39:05,634 --> 00:39:08,262 ♪ ♪ ♪ 881 00:39:08,262 --> 00:39:10,723 - Under the gaze of members the family of the victims, 882 00:39:10,723 --> 00:39:13,684 this verdict puts an end to to a legal saga 883 00:39:13,684 --> 00:39:15,936 who held everything the country in suspense 884 00:39:15,936 --> 00:39:17,855 for several years. 885 00:39:21,942 --> 00:39:25,029 This legal success is the fruit of hard work 886 00:39:25,029 --> 00:39:26,989 detectives, prosecutors 887 00:39:26,989 --> 00:39:29,408 and all the actors of the judicial system 888 00:39:29,408 --> 00:39:32,078 who have demonstrated of remarkable courage. 889 00:39:32,078 --> 00:39:33,412 Remember that these investigations 890 00:39:33,412 --> 00:39:35,331 often involve high risks, 891 00:39:35,331 --> 00:39:36,665 so much for the investigators 892 00:39:36,665 --> 00:39:39,418 only for witnesses who agreed to testify 893 00:39:39,418 --> 00:39:41,754 against an organization also formidable. 894 00:39:51,847 --> 00:39:53,140 - Guilty.